Curse

Akhilleus · Oct 11, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

so people can enjoy the game instead of farming to prepare to play the game

a noob with a collectors sword, and a noob with a crystalline sword, is still a newb.
if you think you need to be wealthy in order to function properly, you clearly do not know what you are doing.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 11, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

a noob with a collectors sword, and a noob with a crystalline sword, is still a newb.
if you think you need to be wealthy in order to function properly, you clearly do not know what you are doing.

Where did anyone say that you have to be wealthy to play the game? I think the only people who are saying this are the rich traders opposed to the salvage options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

I'm not calling anyone a whiner, if the hat fits then...

Do your posts ever make any sort of a point? Or do you just do it to satisfy your trolling urges?

carnivore · Oct 11, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Why is it that people think salvaged inscriptions(if that turns out to be the case) will be expensive? Wouldn't you be able to get an unlimited supply by salvaging items from any ol Weaponsmith,for about 1k each?

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Hai_Jeling

sumrtym · Oct 11, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivore

Why is it that people think salvaged inscriptions(if that turns out to be the case) will be expensive? Wouldn't you be able to get an unlimited supply by salvaging items from any ol Weaponsmith,for about 1k each?

If you put a mod on a collector's item, it can not be salvaged back off. Thus, why would you think you can craft / collector item something and get an inherent mod off it?

Franco · Oct 11, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

No carnivore, you cant salvage anything from crafted/collectors.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

No carnivore, you cant salvage anything from crafted/collectors.

"Weapons crafted by weaponsmiths can be salvaged (unlike collector weapons)."

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Weaponsmith

Franco · Oct 11, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Im sure Anet isnt going to make 15^50 being salvaged from crafted items.. thats just extreme.

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

I think this person is probably just a troll.

Interesting how your side always resorts to the "Go play WoW or another game" argument, yet when I tell you the same thing, I am considered a troll. The purpose of my statement was for you to realize that the game doesn't revolve around your play style.

Perhaps we need to start a poll to prove this, but I tend to think that those in favor of inscriptions are typically the more casual players who provide much less benefit to Anet than the hardcore players do (Not saying everyone is, but in general). I own two copies of prophecies standard, one copy of prophecies collectors edition, one copy of factions collectors edition, six additional character slots, and have preordered Nightfall collectors edition. As long as the game doesn't go down hill, then I will be buying future expansions. I dare say that casual players are less loyal and less likely to continue buying chapters and probably invest much less than the typical hardcore player. Why Anet would choose to listen to this crowd is beyond me.

So far, I see very few good arguments on your side of the table. I will categorize the pro-inscriptionists into three categories and state my reasons as to why their arguments are unsound.

1. For those touting the argument of fairness. Greens and collector weapons already have max stats and are easily obtainable by even the most casual players. In under a month of playing, even a new player can obtain max gear. Anet has already created a level playing field without the need to grind.

2. For those that want unique or different looking skins. Use weapons that are either have higher requirements than 8 or that have damage mods other than 15^50 (15stance, 15enchanted, 14^50, etc.). These are faily cheap as well and you should have no problem obtaining them on a casual player's budget.

3. For those that want both the rarer or sought after skins, low requirements on your weapons, and 15^50 damage modifiers. I've got news for you. If you are that picky about your weapons then you aren't a casual player and don't have the mindset of a casual player. You are those that want everything but not willing to put effort into it. You want these weapons for the same reason that you accuse my side of wanting them for. It is for your own vanity and selfishness. You want to be "leet" and think that a special skin for a weapon is going to give you that feeling. The thing you fail to see is that once everything is made easy to obtain, the excitement of owning those weapons will be gone. You can deny it and state your noble intentions all you want, but it is true. If you've somehow managed to convince yourself otherwise, then you will soon realize that it is true if and when the inscriptions come to pass as we think they will. Despite your best efforts to feel "leet" you will still get beat both in pvp and pve by those who put a lot of effort into the game.

Akhilleus · Oct 11, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Very few people here know what they're talking about (like Akhilleus or Winkgood), most are blinded by being jealous and keep arguing while not giving reasonalbe arguments. Instead they keep being picky on what words someone used and drive far away from the thread's main topic.

just for the sake of clarification (because unlike some people *cough* lovitar *cough* i dont like putting words in others' mouths) was that saying wink and i do know what we are talking about, or do not?

also; i dont "grind" never have, never will. its booring, and reliant on luck; i'd rather rely on ability.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Interesting how your side always resorts to the "Go play WoW or another game" argument, yet when I tell you the same thing, I am considered a troll. The purpose of my statement was for you to realize that the game doesn't revolve around your play style.

The difference is that GW isn't advertised as a MMORPG, and you're telling people to play a game besides GW if they don't like MMORPGs.

Quote:

Perhaps we need to start a poll to prove this, but I tend to think that those in favor of inscriptions are typically the more casual players who provide much less benefit to Anet than the hardcore players do (Not saying everyone is, but in general). I own two copies of prophecies standard, one copy of prophecies collectors edition, one copy of factions collectors edition, six additional character slots, and have preordered Nightfall collectors edition. As long as the game doesn't go down hill, then I will be buying future expansions. I dare say that casual players are less loyal and less likely to continue buying chapters and probably invest much less than the typical hardcore player. Why Anet would choose to listen to this crowd is beyond me.

Perhaps your poll could include the numbers of so-called "casual" players drawn in by Anets design choices versus "hardcore" players with more than one copy. Statistics are fun.

Quote:

3. For those that want both the rarer or sought after skins, low requirements on your weapons, and 15^50 damage modifiers. I've got news for you. If you are that picky about your weapons then you aren't a casual player and don't have the mindset of a casual player. You are those that want everything but not willing to put effort into it. You want these weapons for the same reason that you accuse my side of wanting them for. It is for your own vanity and selfishness. You want to be "leet" and think that a special skin for a weapon is going to give you that feeling. The thing you fail to see is that once everything is made easy to obtain, the excitement of owning those weapons will be gone. You can deny it and state your noble intentions all you want, but it is true. If you've somehow managed to convince yourself otherwise, then you will soon realize that it is true if and when the inscriptions come to pass as we think they will. Despite your best efforts to feel "leet" you will still get beat both in pvp and pve by those who put a lot of effort into the game.

Your side of the argument never seems to put forth an argument as to why work should be required to have a variety of skins available with desirable mods, other than "gee, I got nothin' left to do."

The fact that you think everyone wants "rare" skins in order to make themselves feel "leet" is more a reflection of your own attitude than anything else, and it's really pretty sad. Are you so lacking in esteem that you won't feel "leet" anymore once everyone has your favorite skins? It seems that many (not all) anti-inscriptionists just boil down to selfish children who care more about how others see them.

Maybe people want certain skins because they like they way they look, and like to see their character wield them. Maybe actually playing the game appeals more to them than working on a game, and it would be nice to have their play experience enhanced by a cool skin. Maybe people buy Lamborghinis because they actually like the car, and they're not simply showing off to their neighbors. I can see how these things might not occur to someone with such an immature and egocentric attitude, but please consider them.

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet Gnomesmasher

No I dont consider farming to be cheating. You were the one who brought up the analogy to the cheat code, remember? You were the one who basically inferred that the new salvaging system is akin to cheating.

I'm sorry that you misunderstood my meaning behind quoting the Konami code. The intent was the show the ease of a game when using a code. Many of those on your side are in favor of a game where everything is easily obtainable. I realize that Guild Wars has many unique attributes in the MMORPG field. It was designed so that grind, trading, and farming was not essential to be competitive in the game. Too many take this to mean that everything should be attainable with little or no effort. Rare drops and various skins of armors and weapons were specifically put into the game to cater to those that wanted to go the extra mile. To reward the devoted gamers.

Are any of the pro-inscriptionists big HA'ers? If so, how would you feel if all of a sudden, fame was awarded in RA and TA? Someone who doesn't participate in HA a lot might use the argument that emotes should be available to everyone and that only those that grind away using fotm builds are those that obtain emotes. I'm sorry, but this argument is just as rediculous as the arguments of the pro-inscriptionists. There needs to be incentives in the game. Equal opportunity = good. Forced equality = bad.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

The intent was the show the ease of a game when using a code.

So having a rare skin with good mods makes the game easier? No. Is getting a good drop a challenging? No, it's a matter of luck. Is farming challenging? Maybe to a point, but once you've got it down, it's a matter of time thrown in, isn't it?

Yawgmoth · Oct 11, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

just for the sake of clarification (because unlike some people *cough* lovitar *cough* i dont like putting words in others' mouths) was that saying wink and i do know what we are talking about, or do not?

also; i dont "grind" never have, never will. its booring, and reliant on luck; i'd rather rely on ability.

I meant of course that you and wink DO know what are you talking about.
And people like lovitar annoy the hell out of me with their "get everything quick, complete the game, put it on the shelf and go doing something else till next chapter comes" approach. As it's totally against the nature of Guild Wars, against the reason i choose this game. And we can be sure Anet doensn't want us to stop playing and do something else - they gave us plenty of things to do ingame after completing the storyline, like pvp, many different titles to max, continously changing the game and plenty of fun event to bring people back to the game, repeatable high lvl areas and obviously hunting for rare vanity items.
I have to repeat myself again, that completely destroying one of those long-game-life aspects (hunting for rare vanity items) will have a bad long term effect on the game, no matter if many many players will be happy to see the update at the beginning.

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

So having a rare skin with good mods makes the game easier? No. Is getting a good drop a challenging? No, it's a matter of luck. Is farming challenging? Maybe to a point, but once you've got it down, it's a matter of time thrown in, isn't it?

I solo'ed the FoW wailing forest and beach for more than 2/3 of my shards for my ranger FoW armor.
I have solo'ed UW (pre AOE nerf) and two man farmed with both 55/SS and trapping.
I have solo'ed a variety of bosses in factions for their greens.
I have gone with groups to the elite missions in factions to obtain rare weapons.
I have solo'ed a big variety of enemies throughout Tyria and Cantha with my warrior, ranger, monk, ele, mesmer, and necro.
I have been been on over 300 chest runs in FoW with pugs, by myself, and with several Pryd members.

How many players in Guild Wars can say the same things? True, you do have to include time into the equation with a bit of luck. But eventually, time and effort do reward you. Its proposterous to leave time out of the equation. Of course time is a neccessary ingredient if you want to obtain everything in the game. With all the time I've invested into GW, there are still many things that I haven't done and weapons and armors I haven't obtained. I like this though as it means there is still more than I can accomplish.

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I have to repeat myself again, that completely destroying one of those long-game-life aspects (hunting for rare vanity items) will have a bad long term effect on the game, no matter if many many players will be happy to see the update at the beginning.

QFT. Now if only we could convince everyone of the shortsighted views held by pro-inscriptionists.

edit: sorry for the double post.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

I solo'ed the FoW wailing forest and beach for more than 2/3 of my shards for my ranger FoW armor.
I have solo'ed UW (pre AOE nerf) and two man farmed with both 55/SS and trapping.
I have solo'ed a variety of bosses in factions for their greens.
I have gone with groups to the elite missions in factions to obtain rare weapons.
I have solo'ed a big variety of enemies throughout Tyria and Cantha with my warrior, ranger, monk, ele, mesmer, and necro.
I have been been on over 300 chest runs in FoW with pugs, by myself, and with several Pryd members.

How many players in Guild Wars can say the same things? True, you do have to include time into the equation with a bit of luck. But eventually, time and effort do reward you. Its proposterous to leave time out of the equation. Of course time is a neccessary ingredient if you want to obtain everything in the game. With all the time I've invested into GW, there are still many things that I haven't done and weapons and armors I haven't obtained. I like this though as it means there is still more than I can accomplish.

Very good, I applaud and respect your accomplishments. But does other people being able to buy those items for cheaper negate those accomplishments? Does making those items available for a lower price keep you from continuing to collect drops on your own?

If you're obtaining these items all through combat I don't see why you have a problem with inscriptions, as long as there is no drop increase (nothing like that is part of the inscription system). You have done things to be proud of, why are you so focused on other players' virtual possessions?

Two April Mornings · Oct 11, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I have to repeat myself again, that completely destroying one of those long-game-life aspects (hunting for rare vanity items) will have a bad long term effect on the game, no matter if many many players will be happy to see the update at the beginning.

Exact-bleeping-Ly, except that I'd have to say, inherently perfect rare vanity items. the issue at hand is not as much simpyl skin and req, but skin req and inherent mod.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

QFT. Now if only we could convince everyone of the shortsighted views held by pro-inscriptionists.

edit: sorry for the double post.

I know I'm certainly not the only one who would rather play something else than be faced with mind-numbing farming for hours. Fortunately, I've found many, many other things to extend the life of the game that don't hinge on collecting things. You get all condescending and say to me that "the game doesn't revolve around my playing style," and then act as though what you do with your time should be what everyone aspires to do.

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Very good, I applaud and respect your accomplishments. But does other people being able to buy those items for cheaper negate those accomplishments? Does making those items available for a lower price keep you from continuing to collect drops on your own?

If you're obtaining these items all through combat I don't see why you have a problem with inscriptions, as long as there is no drop increase (nothing like that is part of the inscription system). You have done things to be proud of, why are you so focused on other players' virtual possessions?

Unforunately, I did not obtain the majority of my weapons through my own farming. I've had to sell and buy in order to obtain what I want. An auction house would have made this a lot easier, but thats another issue.

Yes, I do have a problem with people obtaining items with ease when I took so much time and effort to obtain them. Mind if I use a real world example? What if you worked your butt off in a class all semester in order to get a good grade but then some other individual slacked off the whole semester and received the same grade. You still got the good grade so whats the problem? The problem is that it is simply unfair. Had you known in advance that you could spend much less time studying, then you might have used that time for dating, socializing with friends, working and earning money, or playing Guild Wars

Don't give me the argument that the student that worked hard still gained knowledge from the class that the other didn't. We all know that most of what we learn from University level classes will soon be forgotten unless its directly applicable to our career path. The main reason for secondary education is for that piece of paper that says you know something, not for the random knowledge you obtain through GE's.

cellardweller · Oct 11, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Perhaps we need to start a poll to prove this, but I tend to think that those in favor of inscriptions are typically the more casual players who provide much less benefit to Anet than the hardcore players do (Not saying everyone is, but in general). I own two copies of prophecies standard, one copy of prophecies collectors edition, one copy of factions collectors edition, six additional character slots, and have preordered Nightfall collectors edition. As long as the game doesn't go down hill, then I will be buying future expansions. I dare say that casual players are less loyal and less likely to continue buying chapters and probably invest much less than the typical hardcore player. Why Anet would choose to listen to this crowd is beyond me.

Maybe for every 5 accounts they sell to you, they sell 10k accounts to casual players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

1. For those touting the argument of fairness. Greens and collector weapons already have max stats and are easily obtainable by even the most casual players. In under a month of playing, even a new player can obtain max gear. Anet has already created a level playing field without the need to grind.

And can you point me at the green or collector weapon with a 15^50 butterfly skin? 15% enchant Flamberge? 15 stance Falchion? No? Thats because THEY DON'T EXIST!
The odds of having a weapon drop for you with the skin you are after in the stats you want are infintessimal. My font of wisdom/expert treasure hunter titles and lack of an axe that I like is testament to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

2. For those that want unique or different looking skins. Use weapons that are either have higher requirements than 8 or that have damage mods other than 15^50 (15stance, 15enchanted, 14^50, etc.). These are faily cheap as well and you should have no problem obtaining them on a casual player's budget.

Given the choice between playing missions/farming/chest running for another 3500 hrs and have to deal with the "no noob offerz" crowd, I'll pick farming anyday. Trading is not an option for people who play gw for relaxation after a stressful day at the office -We're too busy actually playing the game.

Many of the traders on this thread don't seem to realise that "the casual gamer" doesn't want to ruin their relaxation time having to talk to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

3. For those that want both the rarer or sought after skins, low requirements on your weapons, and 15^50 damage modifiers. I've got news for you. If you are that picky about your weapons then you aren't a casual player and don't have the mindset of a casual player. You are those that want everything but not willing to put effort into it. You want these weapons for the same reason that you accuse my side of wanting them for. It is for your own vanity and selfishness. You want to be "leet" and think that a special skin for a weapon is going to give you that feeling. The thing you fail to see is that once everything is made easy to obtain, the excitement of owning those weapons will be gone. You can deny it and state your noble intentions all you want, but it is true. If you've somehow managed to convince yourself otherwise, then you will soon realize that it is true if and when the inscriptions come to pass as we think they will. Despite your best efforts to feel "leet" you will still get beat both in pvp and pve by those who put a lot of effort into the game.

Wrong again. I couldn't give a toss how rare or leet something is - the fact that a 15/-5 longsword is on my most wanted list is testament to this. I only ever step into an instance with 3 other people, if everyone else in gw had the same weapon as me it wouldn't make one iota of diffence because I don't see them and they don't see me. What you don't seem to realise is that a character is an avatar. They represent players in the game world and as such they need to be customisable.

The state of things at the moment is that if spend your time playing instead of camping in towns it is impossible to get your avatars to look the way you want, not matter how much effort you put in.

Thats where inscriptions come in - Now I can go out and kill some griffons for a white longsword, rip the inscription 15/-5 off that ugly fellblade and I'll finally have a sword that goes with my adreno-build armour so I can go back doing redoing missions and exploring like I want to.